PDA

View Full Version : This thing is calling to me.... help....



convergent
03-29-2007, 03:48 PM
I've got two monitors now, and neither of them are that great for image editing - Samsung 204T 20" LCD and an NEC FE950 19" CRT. I am running them together, and one of the big issues is that Windows XP doesn't make it easy to maintain two dissimilar profiled monitors, although it does work. The 204T is brighter and clearer... but the FE950 has unchanging shadow details. Most of the mid to low end LCDs have big problems with shadow color/detail when you move slightly from dead center... just a few degrees chane in viewing angle can dramatically change shadows. So the ongoing debate in my head is what to eventually move to. I know that only the S-IPS LCDs have this problem licked. Well, Dell just released and upgraded big LCD that is pretty much "the bomb" for image editing. It can supposedly cover 93% of the color gamut, where prior LCDs are only in the 70s. There are some good prices floating around DPReview on this, and it is really calling me... but I don't really need to spend this kind of money right now... BUT, if I look at my investment in cameras/lenses/software... then why am I skimping on one of the most important pieces of my workflow... the display. Help...

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-7175

zacker
03-29-2007, 04:26 PM
There are some good prices floating around DPReview on this, and it is really calling me... but I don't really need to spend this kind of money right now... BUT, if I look at my investment in cameras/lenses/software... then why am I skimping on one of the most important pieces of my workflow... the display. Help...

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-7175

Thats Right Mike, Just keep talking yourself into buying that puppy...

lol,lol,lol... ( there, now no one can call me an Enabler!

convergent
03-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Thats Right Mike, Just keep talking yourself into buying that puppy...

lol,lol,lol... ( there, now no one can call me an Enabler!

Thats not helping...

Incidentally, the price that was floating around was $1332.

StudioCMC
03-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Well as far as you spending your money, thats going to be your wallet not mine.

However this is the application to help balance two diffrent profiles.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=1E33DCA0-7721-43CA-9174-7F8D429FBB9E&displaylang=en

Hope this helps, and if it don't then blame Bill! :)

Chris

Irishpub3
03-29-2007, 04:32 PM
You're coming to us for help? You're talking to the ultimate "buy more gear" enablers here :D Buy it! Buy it! Buy it! :happy

Teresa221
03-29-2007, 04:43 PM
I'm a CRT girl all the way - I'm not ready to trust LCD's yet (I'm slow to trust, we won't even talk about how long it took for me to accept digital over film!).

That is awfully pricey though when you can get a really great CRT for so much less!

Did that talk you out of it? =)

convergent
03-29-2007, 04:52 PM
I'm a CRT girl all the way - I'm not ready to trust LCD's yet (I'm slow to trust, we won't even talk about how long it took for me to accept digital over film!).

That is awfully pricey though when you can get a really great CRT for so much less!

Did that talk you out of it? =)

Keep in mind its a 30" display. Have you been in an Apple store and seen the largest LCD they sell. Dell and Apple use the same panels (in their older versions). This is a new model over the Apple... and is capable of rendering about 20% more of the color gamut, which means it should be able to produce near print quality images. I read on one of the other forums that it can show a 1DsMk2 image at 50% fullscreen. I can only imagine what it would be like using Lightroom with this beast... it would be like really using a light table to view film...

convergent
03-29-2007, 04:53 PM
Well as far as you spending your money, thats going to be your wallet not mine.

However this is the application to help balance two diffrent profiles.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=1E33DCA0-7721-43CA-9174-7F8D429FBB9E&displaylang=en

Hope this helps, and if it don't then blame Bill! :)

Chris

Thanks Chris... I am using that app already... its still a little weird. I've yet to be able to reboot and not have to go into the app to select my profiles manually. Once selected, the color looks pretty close between them.

StudioCMC
03-29-2007, 04:57 PM
Teresa,

I know I am the new guy.. but didnt your parents ever tell you that sitting to close to the TV would ruin your eyes?

Now we do it every single day..

I am sure you still have dial up, and for that matter touch tone phones are not even in use at your house. Its the hand crank all the way!

It's ok, technology is only designed to do one thing.. to pry money from our hands.. and it glows.. or makes a ring tone..

Mike, its only money, its designed to be spread all over the place..

Im not helping much am I...

Chris

zacker
03-29-2007, 04:58 PM
Ok.. how about this?

I just finished a great book, its by a little known author, he's a proffessor of parapsycology an NYU and the worlds leading expert on Hauntings..a DR. Ivander S. Pinkerton, The title of the book is, Monitering the Moniter, a ghost in the machine. He says that using an LCD monitor over 17" is the exact same thing as opening a door to another dimension and sending hand written invitations to Poltergeists to come live with you. They actually had photos of them entering a bedroom through a 21" Dell LCD!!! I couldnt believe it, and, it also states, " once a Spirit passes from their world into ours, especially by means of passing through an LCD screen, they are more likly to disrupt the normalcy of the host household and cause unimaginable damage and destruction." If you ask me, I wouldnt dream of buying that thing!!



Of course, i just made this all up :) but I still wouldnt get it...

StudioCMC
03-29-2007, 05:00 PM
Mike, What Video card do you have?? ATI or Invidia??

You might need a video driver mount (software) for your card too, or the dual DVI output adapter is not all the way in, it should auto detect after you reboot..

Chris

convergent
03-29-2007, 05:01 PM
Ok.. how about this?

I just finished a great book, its by a little known author, he's a proffessor of parapsycology an NYU and the worlds leading expert on Hauntings..a DR. Ivander S. Pinkerton, The title of the book is, Monitering the Moniter, a ghost in the machine. He says that using an LCD monitor over 17" is the exact same thing as opening a door to another dimension and sending hand written invitations to Poltergeists to come live with you. They actually had photos of them entering a bedroom through a 21" Dell LCD!!! I couldnt believe it, and, it also states, " once a Spirit passes from their world into ours, especially by means of passing through an LCD screen, they are more likly to disrupt the normalcy of the host household and cause unimaginable damage and destruction." If you ask me, I wouldnt dream of buying that thing!!



Of course, i just made this all up :) but I still wouldnt get it...

OK, that explains a lot of whats been going on here. But the bigger monitor might allow the spirits to more easily get out... you know like when a fly manages to get into your car when you have your window down just an inch, but you have to open all four windows all the way and ride for a half hour while flapping your arms to get them the heck out of the car???

convergent
03-29-2007, 05:48 PM
I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this beast... much against my financial judgement... with a potential big tax bill coming... and the MIIIs on the horizon, I need my head examined. It is more or less therapy for me at this point though... been a rough year so far and this will help me feel a little better! I sent an email to the Dell rep and he replied confirming the price and needed my phone number to complete the sale. So, I have a few minutes to think about it.... hmmmm....

Teresa221
03-29-2007, 05:57 PM
I keep forgetting this a board with lots of men - who we all know take things very literally :D (Except for of course, Zacker, who always has his tongue firmly in his cheek, much like I do!)

I do still use a CRT, and have NO plans to switch to LCD because I don't feel the technology is there yet in order to accurately and correctly soft proof.

It's getting there, but it is not there yet, IMO.

Yes, I have done research. And yes, I have seen those behemouth monitors :rolleyes: :D

Since I do all portraits, color management is of upmost importance to me and I am watching the progression of technology with LCD's.

And yes, my parents did tell me not to sit too close to the TV, but I guess it turns out they were wrong about that...

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20021230.html

:cool:

StudioCMC
03-29-2007, 06:00 PM
Just to add some gas on the embers here..

ANY LCD/PLASMA TV's that have an HDMI port can accept video signals from your PC.. you can break the 30" barrier..

and if you want to go "Bigtime" you could always do this...

http://www.digitaltigers.com/zenview-powerscape-ultrahd.shtml

Chris

convergent
03-29-2007, 06:19 PM
I keep forgetting this a board with lots of men - who we all know take things very literally :D (Except for of course, Zacker, who always has his tongue firmly in his cheek, much like I do!)

I do still use a CRT, and have NO plans to switch to LCD because I don't feel the technology is there yet in order to accurately and correctly soft proof.

It's getting there, but it is not there yet, IMO.

Yes, I have done research. And yes, I have seen those behemouth monitors :rolleyes: :D

Since I do all portraits, color management is of upmost importance to me and I am watching the progression of technology with LCD's.

And yes, my parents did tell me not to sit too close to the TV, but I guess it turns out they were wrong about that...

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20021230.html

:cool:

Well none of the stuff I have, or will buy, is of the extreme color managed caliber... but this Dell 30" seems to come darn close. The real high-end stuff is about 4-5x the price, for much smaller monitors. I currenly have a decent CRT sitting along side a decent LCD that are both color managed. To me, the LCD does a better job of representing what my print looks like on all but one front... that's shadow detail. The majority of LCDs have significant color shift problems with very small movement in viewing angle... I mean like 4 or 5 degrees... which at desktop distance is barely moving your head... maybe a couple of inches. LCDs that are of S-IPS technology do not have this problem, but I'll tell you that you can't buy an S-IPS monitor at any store in the Albany area... they just aren't typically sold in typical computer and big box stores. There are a few 20" S-IPS panels out there in lower priced LCDs.. notably the HP, but there are big problems with part swapping in them and some people get an S-IPS, and some people don't. The panel in this is a much improved panel over the one in the 30" Apple Mac LCD, which is pretty much the envy of everyone that's ever strolled into an Apple store. I guess I agree that CRTs have some advantages, but they are pretty minimal compared to high end LCDs... even the high end color managed display vendors have LCDs now... Eizo being the benchmark. I was just looking at B&H and they have an Eizo 22" LCD for $5300... and a lot of others ranging down to $1500... but I don't think any of them are bigger than that.

convergent
03-29-2007, 06:21 PM
Just to add some gas on the embers here..

ANY LCD/PLASMA TV's that have an HDMI port can accept video signals from your PC.. you can break the 30" barrier..

and if you want to go "Bigtime" you could always do this...

http://www.digitaltigers.com/zenview-powerscape-ultrahd.shtml

Chris

OK, that thang is pretty cool.

One other thing I thought of... I was thinking of knocking a whole in the wall and putting in a nice big window. I can now get a good quality webcam and mount it up in the basement style window and be able to use the 30" display like a window to the outside!

StudioCMC
03-29-2007, 06:31 PM
Well someone was flicking the name Dell in there (eww) When ever I go shoping I use NewEgg.com they have a very good selection and each day something new is always on sale. There are a couple of other places that I know of. I always buy online for PC products.

Teresa> Just a quick question, if your proof shooting you have to be using a white balance. I don't know what your editing with, but photoshop has color match, so if you were to have a shot you would place the White/Grey tone card and fire off a shot, this way you would color balance all of your images from a known color matched chart that is 1:1 within photoshop.

Do you use Macbeth Colorchecker against any of your images?

How do you have your monitor configured? Are you using Windows or Adobe's color checker?

Chris

Teresa221
03-29-2007, 07:04 PM
Chris, it's way more complicated than that.

Color management has to do with making your prints match what you created on your screen.

My monitor is calibrated with Pantone Eye One. Then I imbed my printing houses color profile into photoshop so I can soft proof. Soft proofing means that I proof in a way that allows me to see what the printer will print, NOT just post processing in a way that looks good on your screen.

There are colors and shades of colors that DO NOT PRINT. Many colors you can see vividly on your computer screen cannot be duplicated by ink and a printer.

This is what soft proofing is all about.

And why I need my monitor to have spot on color (and shadows, of course - which, like Mike mentioned, is a major problem with the LCD's).

Hope that answered your questions. If you do a search on color management and soft proofing you'll get more detailed answers then I can provide, certainly.

convergent
03-29-2007, 07:14 PM
Chris, it's way more complicated than that.

Color management has to do with making your prints match what you created on your screen.

My monitor is calibrated with Pantone Eye One. Then I imbed my printing houses color profile into photoshop so I can soft proof. Soft proofing means that I proof in a way that allows me to see what the printer will print, NOT just post processing in a way that looks good on your screen.

There are colors and shades of colors that DO NOT PRINT. Many colors you can see vividly on your computer screen cannot be duplicated by ink and a printer.

This is what soft proofing is all about.

And why I need my monitor to have spot on color (and shadows, of course - which, like Mike mentioned, is a major problem with the LCD's).

Hope that answered your questions. If you do a search on color management and soft proofing you'll get more detailed answers then I can provide, certainly.

Teresa,

This stuff is exactly what this monitor does well. As a point of reference, the last version of the 30" display, which Dell was selling until about a month ago... and what Apple has been selling and has been praise for, covered 72% of the color gamut. This new one covers 92% of the color gamut, which means that it should be able to render color equal to your printer. And the S-IPS technology, which most LCD users have never seen (me included) takes care of any color shift that LCDs are famous for. You can actually display a full 13"x19" print on the display.... so you can proof full size prints.

I have everything here color managed... display, printers, scanner... so I'll let you know how it performs. According to the Dell guy I shoul have it hand by the beginning of next week.

The best part... 90 Day deferred payment! Yahoo... this was totally an impulse buy. :happy :happy :happy

StudioCMC
03-29-2007, 07:15 PM
Hmm, I'll look into this. Thanks!

BTW; You have a GREAT website!

Chris

Teresa221
03-29-2007, 07:19 PM
I'm actually anxious to hear your report Mike :D Like I said - I've been keeping an eye on them. I'm just going to wait until it proven and solid (and of course, the prices start going down!).

Thanks Chris :) I actually have some more images I need to add to my gallery.

convergent
03-29-2007, 07:45 PM
I'll keep you posted...

... wait a minute...

.... I just thought of something...

I may never leave my desk again!

Orgnoi1
03-29-2007, 11:58 PM
I may never leave my desk again!

We may have to VPN you into my network so you can game from home Mike...LOL

convergent
03-30-2007, 12:04 AM
We may have to VPN you into my network so you can game from home Mike...LOL

Well it turns out that a 20" LCD turned vertical is the same vertical height as this beast... so maybe I'll still have two monitors... :) I've seen a couple of setups where people had the 30" in the middle, with a 20" on each side turned vertical... ok, this is sick. Being an impulse thing... I'm now going to be fit to be tied until this thing shows up sometime next week.

convergent
03-30-2007, 10:53 AM
OK, now I don't feel so sick any longer... THIS IS FOR ROSS TO SEE....

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1170451&highlight=3007wfp

If you ever have any thought that you have the most kick-butt computer setup, then just go back to this thread... it is pretty dang impressive. Just as a teaser... 2 x 30" LCDs on the desk... 4 racks of gear in the basement... must see.

zacker
03-30-2007, 11:05 AM
wow Mike...thats an impressive set up...wonder what he does? One pic looks like he's running something like Pro zTool... but i think thats a mac program, dunno if it can run on Windows based machines.. I wonder what all that costs? how much heat it throws and how much the electric bill is for that set up??

That phone is cool too... i want to have that system... lol dunno what id do with it, prolly check my email..lol

convergent
03-30-2007, 11:33 AM
Well a lot of the gear in the rack is Cisco and Sun... so he's doing some Linux stuff...maybe CAD or something. I don't know, but thats one heck of a system.... makes my measily setup look lame in comparsion. Although I can't fathom an office with nothing in it like that... my place is a mess most of the time. I am now leaning towards flipping my 20" display vertical and trying it along side the new 30" That would be kind of slick if it worked, but I think the fact that its not a widescreen may be an issue. My card supports running them both, so I'll have to try it.

zacker
03-30-2007, 12:33 PM
id use it to go on mYspace and leave messages to Barb....lol