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View Full Version : Help!! My color sucks! Can't find a bulb.



Neutron Jack
10-29-2006, 08:20 PM
I need help finding a 1000w bulb, preferably T10 shape, w/ an E40 mogul base, that puts out about 5600k. Does this animal even exist? Is there a similar bulb that can be used with an adaptor in the mogul base? All I'm finding is the tungsten bulbs @2800k, and the flash is blowing my white balance, and processing it out sucks. I'm afaid I'll tear what little hair I have left out looking for the damn thing :Hammer , then never find it .

zacker
10-29-2006, 09:13 PM
ok Jack...whew its a good thing i found you here... Now, relax... Breath... good good.. now.. slowly,,, breathe... good.. now, tell me again what it is you want... but this time..SAY IT IN ENGLISH!!!! lol,lol,lol...
seriously.. whats this all about?

Neutron Jack
10-29-2006, 10:18 PM
I'm looking for a 1000 watt light bulb, preferably in the T10 shape (tubular, 10 inch) with an E40 mogul base (like a light bulb in your house, only bigger), which lights at 5600 degrees kelvin. I currently have 2 softboxes with bulbs that burn at 2800 degrees kelvin. The 580ex flash burns at appx. 5600 degrees kelvin, so when I set my white balance at 2800 degrees kelvin, the 5600 degree flash makes everything blue. To top it off, there's a +- range on my bulb temp of 10%, and I'm obviously running on the minus end, because my white balance's lowest adjustment is 2800 degrees, and everyone's too red. Soooooo, too red without the flash, too blue with it. I tried a CTO Orange gel on the flash, but that just continued my red problem. Long story short: I need new bulbs. But I can't find the damn things anywhere on the net, or they don't list the color temperature if I can. Is this any clearer, or am I still talking funny? I do that when I'm frustrated. I'm just hoping someone else has had this problem, and found the fix (the right bulbs).

Jack

zacker
10-30-2006, 07:14 AM
Naaahhh still sounds chinese to me but that could also be because i dont understand all this talk of temp and kelvin... i mean, i know what it is but not enough about them to offer any help... lol sorry .
I would ask this, have you tried either shooting raw and correcting the WB in adobie Camera raw? or making a custom WB before the shoot?

convergent
10-30-2006, 07:51 AM
I nosed around and didn't find anything. There are plenty of 5600K bulbs out there, but trying to match the other parameters is going to be tough. I think I'd try B&H.

Have you tried a custom White Balance? If you set that, it should take into account your mixed lighting and give you the right temperture and tone. Another approach might be to find an easier to get bulb, and then gel your 580EX to match it. Then you only have one color to deal with in setting your custom WB.

Neutron Jack
10-30-2006, 06:52 PM
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a bulb that's anything other than 2800k in that style at that wattage.....maybe I'll just shoot myself so I don't have to worry about it. I'll probably have to buy new heads. Maybe I'll try to retro a different type of socket into this head. I was hoping someone who dealt with portraits a lot would have some suggestions. Woe is me......Thats what I get for buying bargain basement equipment.

Orgnoi1
10-30-2006, 07:08 PM
Going to second what Mike said... find an 18% gray card and do a custom WB... if you need help hooking that up let me know... I can even come down with my whitebalance card if you need to check it out...

Once you set the cameras white balance to the actual light (and the light doesnt change) you should have corrected color...

zacker
10-30-2006, 07:52 PM
chang it in your raw program... if you shhot in raw that is. lol Jack, dont sweat it, a custome WB should solve your problem, its what photogs were doing for years, typically, a film guy would have his model hold the card and he'd shoot it first, then do the shoot and tell the lab to use the card to balance the rest of the shots ( i think thats what they did.. i read it somewhere) now you can do it in like 10 secs!

blairblaiss
10-31-2006, 06:27 PM
Jack, tungsten bulbs burn at 2800K. If you really need 5600K, you should look for Metal Halide Iodide (or Hydrargyrum Medium-Arc Iodide) lamps that burn at 5600K and are about 4x more efficient than tungstens as far as output is concerned (meaning - the HMI lamp of 250W gives roughly the same output as 1000W tungsten lamp).

Are you sure that you want to mix incandescent light with flash?

P.S. Here's a link to a site that you may find helpful:
http://photo.net/studio/primer

epatsellis
12-05-2006, 07:20 PM
were it I, I'd contact Lee filters and get a cinematographer's sample pack. the filters are large enough to use on your flash, simply filter the flash to match (as close as possible) the lighting.

erie

convergent
12-05-2006, 08:10 PM
You know, you could just take a custom white balance and not worry about the color temperature... have you given that a shot?

Neutron Jack
12-05-2006, 11:38 PM
Yeah, the problem is that the 2 different color light sources can't be corrected by custom white balance....only one will be white, the other will be red or blue. I think I'll just have to break down and either set up with five 400w lights and abandon the flash altogether, or lay out for a setup of Alien Bees. That will set me back anywhere between $600 and $1500. Not liking either option too much.

zacker
12-06-2006, 07:02 AM
One word dave.... "Strobist" If your doing one to two person portraits or just stuff like small items, you can get away with a small "Strobist" style flash kit like mine!

Two Nikon SB-25 flashes, two $7.00 stands and two $9.00 42" white/Black umbrellas... home made sync cords and all is good!!! the flashes i got on ebay.. with shipping, they were each in the $70.00 range.. not over $80.00 and you dont need Nikon or Canon...any manually set flash with a sync port on the side will do.Sure youll lose Ettl but who needs it anyhow? not for portraits or product shots..

zacker
12-06-2006, 07:15 AM
Heres the kit along with some samples.. no custom WB was set, all shot in RAW (except for maybe the pics of the kit..) and processed in PSCS2 ACR ...

the kit....
http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/98493859-S.jpg

http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/98493858-S.jpg

one flash 1/2 power, camera left.... Minor PP on the right to bring up shadows.
http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/112985698-S.jpg

two strobes, R & L 1/2 power...
http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/112985624-S.jpg

works great with my "Mini Studio" for sall product shots too!

something like 1/4 - 1/8 power. two strobes, 100MM f2.8 macro. 1/250 or so, about f /22.
http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/109645499-S.jpg

http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/109748671-S.jpg

http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/108198972-S.jpg

AgandAu
12-06-2006, 09:20 AM
I heard a rumor that Neutron Jack's wife likes to do high key portraits of large families and black dogs. She keeps screaming ...more light....more light! LOL! Of course it might just be a rumor...:)

http://www.northeastfoto.com/gallery/files/4/5/3/IMG_8119MR.jpg

Neutron Jack
12-06-2006, 10:19 PM
Heres the kit along with some samples..

Thanks zacker- I might try that- We have 2 flash units in the house, so I might give that a try and see whats up.

Jack

Neutron Jack
12-06-2006, 10:21 PM
Ignore her, she's insane.




I heard a rumor that Neutron Jack's wife likes to do high key portraits of large families and black dogs. She keeps screaming ...more light....more light! LOL! Of course it might just be a rumor...:)

http://www.northeastfoto.com/gallery/files/4/5/3/IMG_8119MR.jpg

convergent
12-07-2006, 11:20 AM
Yeah, the problem is that the 2 different color light sources can't be corrected by custom white balance....only one will be white, the other will be red or blue. I think I'll just have to break down and either set up with five 400w lights and abandon the flash altogether, or lay out for a setup of Alien Bees. That will set me back anywhere between $600 and $1500. Not liking either option too much.

I would respectfully disagree with your statement. A custom white balance can correct 2 different color light sources. The light that is hitting the subject is the light that is hitting the subject. I was at a seminar that was co-sponsored by Canon where they demonstrated this. They took a spotlight (big flashlight), and put a colored gel on it, then shined it directly at the subject, along with the other hot lights and such that were there. Then they did a custom white balance, and it completely corrected the color cast.

There are many ways to set a custom WB, so maybe the approach you are using isn't working with this situation. I have several different ways of doing it and vary the technique for the conditions. For a mixed light source situation, you can NOT use an Expodisc since it has to be aimed at the source. I use the Expodisc in gyms, churches, etc... and it works great. For a situation like you describe I'd use what they were selling in this seminar. That is the white/grey/black 3 bar target. I've got several of these in all different sizes and use them in mixed lighting. You put the target in the place the subject would be, and take your reading. It will fix the color on the subject.