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convergent
07-19-2006, 01:06 AM
This is from a series of posts I did when learning the D2H... I'm reposting here in hopes that it might help someone.



Here are a few from Friday nights games. I decided not to mess with the flash ... 3 games to cover in one night was enough. I'm still getting some softness that I think is a combination of the wide open lens and high ISO processing.


These are all D2H, 50mm f/1.4 @ 2.2, 1/400, Manual, ISO1600, Custom WB, Center Weighted Metering, AF-C w/Focus Priority

http://collins-home.com/gallery/albums/userpics/boysbball2004/heatley/DSC_2491_filtered_web.jpg

http://collins-home.com/gallery/albums/userpics/boysbball2004/heatley/DSC_2494_filtered_web.jpg

http://collins-home.com/gallery/albums/userpics/boysbball2004/heatley/DSC_2519_filtered_web.jpg


This gym was a little brighter. I think it shows a little better sharpness

This was with the 85mm f/1.8 @ 2, 1/400, ISO1250


http://collins-home.com/gallery/albums/userpics/girlsbball2004/academy2/DSC_2428_filtered_web.jpg

This shot I was slow at the trigger and its a little OOF... but I thought it was a cool shot.


This was with the 50mm f/1.4 @ 2.2, 1/400, ISO1250


http://collins-home.com/gallery/albums/userpics/girlsbball2004/academy2/DSC_2442_filtered_web.jpg

fadeout
07-19-2006, 02:46 AM
Mike, they might be soft because of the shutter speed.

And come on now, you were shooting with a Nikon, what can you expect!?

haha, just kidding.

zacker
07-19-2006, 07:08 AM
Mike, they might be soft because of the shutter speed.

And come on now, you were shooting with a Nikon, what can you expect!?

haha, just kidding.

lol :Hammer

-zacker-

convergent
07-19-2006, 12:12 PM
Mike, they might be soft because of the shutter speed.

And come on now, you were shooting with a Nikon, what can you expect!?

haha, just kidding.

You don't know how true that is. First off, this was from a period of time when I was learning a new camera and doing a lot of experimenting. I think my basketball technique has improved quite a bit since then AND, the Canon high ISO helps a lot. These shots in this D2H series were almost all run through Noise Ninja. NN gets rid of noise, but it also gets rid of some detail and its a fine line as to what is best. Sharpening a noisy image makes it way more noisy, and quite ugly... so you can't apply much sharpening if any. In fact, I don't think I sharpened any of these... just applied NN, cropped, and saved.

The Canon images are so clean, that this stuff I was fighting with is almost non-existent now. I can shot at ISO1600 all day long and almost never have a noise issue to even think about. The only time, with Canon, that it is a problem is if you really underexpose the images.... I mean like 2 stops off or more. Then you may get some noise. With the D2H, and to a slightly lesser extent, the D70, you had to be spot on with the exposure, or noise took over. If you've ever taken pictures in a high school gym, you know that getting exposure perfect is nearly impossible.

This is not meant to be a knock on Nikon, because there are many areas I prefer Nikon... like the dynamic AF which I loved... but in the words of my teenaged daughter, Canon "owns" Nikon when it comes to high ISO shooting. From what I've seen, the D2X and D200 are not much better. The only one I think may be better is the D2Hs, which in my opinion is a bit pricey for a 4MP camera.

zacker
07-19-2006, 12:34 PM
what is the Hassle with the noise in Nikon? cant they copy Canon? I mean, you make a small change and do it just a tad differently and its good. my friends father invented something called the "Omnisonix Imager" back in the early 80's and it was patented but some Japanese company stole the idea and ran with it and they called it "Stereo wide" it was a feature found on allot of "Boom boxes" to give music a bigger dynamic range and make it sound like you had speakers alot farther away than right there on the boom box. He lost it and closed the company after only a few years...
-zacker-

convergent
07-19-2006, 12:49 PM
It is a choice they have made. Canon uses a high pass filter on the sensor to filter out the noise in the camera. By doing this, Canon gives up some sharpness and this is why any Canon shooter is going to be very familiar with the Unsharp Mask... because it is something you almost always have to apply. Nikon images, if properly taken, don't need the sharpening every time like Canon. So its a tradeoff. For me, I prefer the lack of noise, since sharpening seems to be easier to deal with. However, if you didn't shoot a lot of high ISO work like I do, then it wouldn't be an issue at all.

It is important to note that I'm talking about real world use. If you go to dpreview and look at the comparisons of sensor noise between Canon and Nikon comparable cameras, you'll see very little difference. However, those tests are done in a controlled setting. Where Canon really shines is when you don't have perfect exposure and you don't have correct white balance, and you are shooting JPEG. The gap is much greater in that setting than a controlled comparison in a studio. I'd love to see them compare high ISO noise when the image was a stop under exposed and then corrected.